Teens and Cars.

So basically, you're telling the kid that the rules get changed when it's convenient for you.
Quite frankly, if my parents had offered to buy me a car on condition that I had to use it to play Steppin Fetchit for them, I would have said, "No thanks."

I didn't have a car till I was in college - I commuted from home every day (didn't live on campus).
Before that I ran a few errands for my Mom - using her car - but I wasn't all that keen to drive - anywhere I needed to get to in town I could get there by riding my bike.

I'm sorry another baby is overwhelming you but issuing an 'ultimatum' that he help you run errands is not a good reason for him to have his own car.
He can get a few things at the store using YOUR car once in awhile and
limit activities to no more than 2 per kid at one time.
Did you think this through before you got pregnant this last time around?
It's not your oldest s fault that you had another baby so don't punish him for it.
Stick with the original car plan (in college) and hire a Mommy's Helper or a baby sitter so you can get things done while the baby is comfortable at home.

seems like an awful lot of 'you are going to be a jerk and take advantage' presumptive rules are put in place way too far in advance, then have to be revised.
why not presume out of the gate that your 'pretty good kid' might just be happy to help out and do errands?
why do you have to actually buy him a car for this to be the case?
sounds like the family needs another car. you have a kid who is almost old enough for a license. i don't understand your husband and MIL's attitudes. unless they plan to prevent him from driving until he's no longer a teen, why is it crazy to abide by the legal guidelines?
and why on earth do you need to issue an 'ultimatum' to a kid who thus far has done nothing wrong?
buy an extra family car, allow him to drive it under sensible proscribed circumstances once he's legally licensed to do so, and behave like parents, ie allowing incremental amounts of freedom and privilege as he demonstrates his ability to handle it maturely.
once he's completed his 3 semesters of college, if you want to you can give it to him.
you don't have to stick a finger in his face and yank the keys away from him if you only GIVE him the keys when you want him to have them.
?
khairete
S.

Your husband is right. You might be convenienced by your son being the new chauffeur, but it would be better to drop some of the activities instead.

A car is a huge responsibility and your husband is thinking about a lot more than convenience. He's thinking about safety and that boy's lack of maturity. He's also thinking about the future.

Sorry - I can't back you up on this one...

Oh goodness. My son just turned 16 this summer (just the week before school he was able to get his license due to when our family vacation was). The same afternoon we sent him with his younger sister to go to the movies, to get the "pain" and fear out of us right away. Rip the old band-aid off.

It has only been a month, but my goodness has it been a help for us already. He's been able to take his sister to her marital arts classes on 3 occasions when their Dad and I would have had to cut short an activity in order to get home in time to take her. And he also has taken and picked her up from a birthday party that she would have missed while we were in another town car shopping all day on a Saturday.

He also now can drive himself home from his own sports practice, rather than waiting on the school's activity bus (which takes over an hour for him to get home, and doesn't even bring him home, but drops him at a gas station where we'd have to stop whatever we're doing and go pick him up from).

Personally, I am glad he is driving now. And I hate hearing about parents that don't even want their kids to learn as teens. What a handicap for them. I know that is a strong use of the word, and I mean no offense to anyone. But unless you live in a MAJOR city that relies on public transit for everyone to get around (like subway systems), then there is no reason not to teach this vital skill to your teen. If you cannot afford the insurance, then that is a different matter. But if you simply decide not to LET them... that is keeping them from a skill they should know and practice.

Please talk with your husband about reconsidering this. Where we live, it is not a simple process to become a licensed driver for the first time as a minor. It requires a lot of supervision and practice behind the wheel, along with structured class time (either in person or online..... 30 hours of it). Plus documented hours actual behind the wheel driving.
And you know.. I think my son bonded with me a little during the whole process, as well.

They have to grow up some time. Better to gradually introduce responsibilities. Dad might find it great to be able to send his son up to the corner store for a bag of charcoal if you suddenly are out... or a gallon of milk at the grocery store. Or even just to gas up your car so you don't have to in the morning.
Why doesn't he want him to learn to drive? Is he afraid he will be in an accident or cause one? Or is it more a control thing where he doesn't want your son to have the ability to be independent? Good parenting involves teaching independence gradually. It's not like they suddenly wake up one morning at age 18 and are mature and adult. It is a process. They need these smaller steps along the way to grow.

Good luck to you. And your son.

I live on Portland, so I'll answer from the perspective of someone who could possibly be directly impacted :
I really don't like the idea of a person who 'doesn't like to sleep' getting behind the wheel, period. No matter what age. Lack of attentiveness, falling asleep at the wheel-- all sorts of bad things can happen.

I also see that he doesn't have his license, so he cannot drive independently in any case.

Do you want a new driver out there where your other kids are walking or playing? Up where I live, by a large hospital, I can tell you that I see near-accidents happen very, very often. People who are distracted by their phones, distracted by their race to get to and from work. Plus all of the drivers out there who just don't know where they are going. Downtown is always a mess with out of town drivers and people unfamiliar with the street systems... my husband has to drive very defensively each day to and from work. I'm a pedestrian for the most part: I have to cross the intersection by the hospital VERY defensively as well.

So, if your husband was saying "hey, he's showing the level of responsibility I need to want to put him out on the road", great. I'd feel differently. That said, there is Tri-Met. We have one of the best comprehensive bus systems in this country. Might look into their trip planning functions to help with some of the transportation. I still take the bus rather often and quite a few of the very responsible, mature youngsters I know (16+) also bus if their parents aren't going in the same direction. I took a bus to work after school at 16. You do have this great transportation option. Good luck.

They are going to be a new driver at some point, whether it's a teen or at 20 like they are proposing. They will still have the same inexperience. They will still have the same sense of invincibility (brains don't mature until 25 and I still see many middle aged men driving around like they are at nascar).

My parents bought me a car at 17 (that was the driving age in my state). It was a good, reliable used one. I was responsible for the gas in it. In retrospect, I think my parents should have also required that I pay (or at least chip in for) the insurance and maintenance. I was told that should I receive any type of traffic ticket, the car would be taken away.

As soon as I turned 16 I got my license, got a job and my parents helped me purchase my first car. They were already tired of driving me around, and (although I did take the bus quite a bit) I had a schedule that needed a car. Without a car I couldn't get out of school at 3:30pm, get to work for 4:00pm, get off work at 7:00pm and make it to band practice for 7:30pm. My parents also appreciated not having to pick me up at 10:00 or 11:00pm from my job or other activities. I was also able to help my parents out with errands and groceries as well. I never would have been able to get to and from college without a car. I would have spent half the day on the bus.

It has been a while since my oldest first learned to drive, but here is how we handled all of that....

We bought a cheap, used car... (probably less that $500, but that was back in 1997, I think...), paid for insurance, and one tank of gas every week or so.... she used the car for getting to and from school and church activities, babysitting jobs, and she also had to help drive siblings around to their activities. We also limited her to driving only in our city, and not on the interstate for at least 6 months. We didn't feel she needed to go "hang out" at the mall in the nearby BIG city, since there wasn't anything like a mall in our city. (We live about 30 minutes away from Austin, TX.)

That worked for us. I will say, however, that she was also the one we trusted to stay at home, alone, for a week or so while we went on a vacation to visit friends and family (she had a music competition so she couldn't go with us.) We even allowed her to have friends (including male friends) over while we were gone. We trusted her completely, and she didn't betray our trust.

Well driving is a life skill that needs to happen at some point, but it's a pretty scary step. Most states have graduated licensing programs for that reason. In my state, you can get a permit at 16 (need to take a written test), take driver's ed, which is 30 hours of classroom time, plus road hours, plus a mandatory parent class, then test for your license at age 16.5 and get a Junior Operator license. With a JO license, you can only drive during certain hours, for the first 6 months you can't have any passengers who aren't family members, if you get a ticket for anything the consequences are severe, etc.

If you have to pay for driver's ed, a car, gas, and insurance, wouldn't it be cheaper to just hire out the errands you need run? Have groceries delivered, hire an adult or college student to help shuttle kids to activities, etc.

I see no need to rush the process because life got busy. I totally understand busy - my husband and I work FT, I teach test prep 4 nights a week, three of my kids play hockey, another one does mixed martial arts, my two teenagers have jobs, one kid takes piano lessons... it's nuts. Would it be convenient for my 2 16-year-old kids to be driving? Sure. Do we have a car for them? Yes. Have they completed Driver's Ed yet (which they have to pay for)? Nope. Have they saved enough for insurance, maintenance and gas (which they have to pay for)? One has, one hasn't. Would I actually let them drive a younger sibling somewhere if they had a license? No way, no how.

Rather than look at rushing to get your kid on the road as the solution to your problem, look for other ways to solve this by outsourcing and hiring out what you need help with right now. It will take him months and months and months before he even gets a license anyway, so let it be done on his own time as appropriate.

FWIW I think that expecting a child to wait until college to have a car is even more ludicrous. The only kids I know who waited that long were my cousins, who lived in a city with no parking and excellent public transportation.

I think you need to come to a realistic middle ground - figure out a different way to solve your immediate problem and put a plan in place to have him on the road at whatever the normal time frame is in your state, which is usually sometime after 16.5 or 17. If you can afford to get a car for him (or take a hand-me-down beater from someone you know, which is what we did) then great, but have him pay for his insurance and gas, or if he's doing errands for you, you can pay part of it but some of the expense should be his.

I think that's a set-up for resentment. Mom and Dad had another baby, so now the teen needs to be the hired help. Plus, you're going to be establishing a precedent: our rules don't matter if things are inconvenient. And would you really only allow him to go to the store for diapers or drive a younger sibling to piano lessons? Could he drive to the movies as long as he stopped on the way home and picked up milk? It's too convoluted, and too open-ended. Instead of hiring your teen to be an errand service for you, hire a housekeeper to do the laundry and do the basic cleaning or cooking, or a babysitter to stay with the baby while you drive the kids around. A housecleaner or babysitter will be a lot less expensive than 16 year old's car insurance, a car payment, and gas.

Let this boy's mother and father decide. Don't allow it to be a them against you situation.

The boy's father and mother don't feel comfortable letting him drive. There must be reasons for that. Don't let convenience trump what is in everyone's best interest. Get the boy a really good bike. He can trek himself around town to school and activities if it isn't too far. Our almost 15 year old rides everywhere on his bike. It is his form of independence..and is teaching him to watch the road and traffic around him. (his school is four miles away)

Good luck. I don't mind a 16 year old driving. But he will drive the family van. We don't buy cars for kids. He will have to keep a certain grade point average to keep the privilege, have a good attitude, keep up with his chores and be willing to help with errands.

I agree with your husband and his mother.

L.,

Is your son 15 or 16? What are the rules of teen driving in Oregon? I know some states have STRICT rules for when kids can drive.

If you are really in Oregon - this is what I found..
http://www.oregon.gov/odot/dmv/teen/pages/index.aspx
http://www.odot.state.or.us/forms/dmv/7190.pdf#parent_teen
http://www.glencoe.com/sites/oregon/teacher/drivereducati...

I was 15.5 when I got my permit and on my 16th birthday, my mom took me to the DMV and I took the driving test and the written test and passed both - perfectly...my parents set the rules for my driving. I had to buy my gas, they paid the insurance. I bought my first car - I had won money at Alpha Beta Bingo - and got a cool car....it wasn't the '67 Mustang I wanted - but it worked!! :)

I don't understand your "ultimatum" - an ultimatum is a demand to do something or else....you need his help - that's not an ultimatum situation from my point of view...why not sit down with your son and tell him what you feel you are up against, what you expect of him and the consequences of not meeting those expectations??

What do you expect your son to do for errands?
Why all of a sudden will you need help?

I'm sorry - your son is 15 years old and doesn't know how to sleep? Is he ADHD? Does he have insomnia? I'd go to the doctor and ask for a sleep study and a physical to rule out any health problems. I would want him driving while tired - that's worse than driving while intoxicated...

Good luck!

It all depends on the teenager. Some kids are mature and handle responsibility really well. Other kids are irresponsible. How does your son handle other things? Does he take control of his own room, his homework, his belongings? Does he keep his word and do waht he's said he's going to do?

Insurance companies generally double your auto insurnce cost when you add a teenage boy to your policy - and only increase it about 10% when you add a teenage girl. Why? They have the statistics to prove that teenage boys are dangerous in cars. Their bodies are filled with testosterone - which increases risk-taking. They will do things that any other person would never consider doing. Teenage boys tend to have not only more accidents - but the severity is far greater. More injuries, and more serious in nature. A teenage girl may dent the fender trying to parallel parka - but her male counterpart will wrap the car around a big old tree becuase he was going around the corner too fast and couldn't make the curve. His passenger will fracture his arm and the car will be totaled. BUT - I do know many young men who are conservative and responsible who don't have those kind of accidents. You know your son better than anyone else.

So the question is - if you didn't have a teen in your family - let's say he was 10 - who would be driving the kids around to their activities? Don't sacrifice your position on something for convenience purposes. What about carpooling? Whenever I got a team roster I would send out an email to all asking about carpool interest. OR have your teenage son babysit while you drive all over town. It can be kind of nice to have that small quite time alone in the car - even if it's only 10 minutes before 5 kids pile in to be taken home. I've sat in my car in parking lots over the years in all kinds of attire / sans make-up and with my hair sticking straight up - every parent has been there! But I used it as my tiny little private mom time.

Good luck mama - make this decision with your husband - wouldn't you hate it if you forced the decision and then were sorry about it a few months down the road?

Personally my kids will be welcome to get a car once they have a license, but they will also be getting jobs. I was working at 14, full time by 15. If a teen is working and can show that they can pay their own way with gas and insurance then I see no reason for a kid to not have a car, and if you helping him pay for it means he needs to do certain things for you then that is fine. Even if he paid for his own car it would still be okay to expect him to run some errands, just like doing chores around the house, because it is all part of being a member of a family, you all have to work together to make things run smoothly.

and there is nothing wrong with changing the rules in this case, sometimes we set limits for our kids before they actually get to the age where those limits would apply, and then when we get there we realize our ideas about that time frame were incorrect or short sighted, so we adjust, that is normal.

Here in TX, a student gets a learners permit and takes a driving course outside of school at the age of 15 and about $400. There is class time and drive time involved.

At 16, they get the DL. It is a graduated type license and the teen cannot have a load of teens in the car with them while driving. Of course some break the rules and just this week, 6 teens were killed in a single car accident due to speed, losing control of the car, and distracted driver. By the age of 18, they have a regular DL.

Our daughter did get her DL at 16 and a car. We pay insurance and all expenses. She moved out last year to start college and pays her gas except if she is visiting us (20 minutes away) and then hubby or I will go fill her tank.

Now I would have an issue if she were sleep deprived and getting on the road. It sounds like your son is not yet mature enough to understand and manage the responsibilities of driving if he has trouble sleeping.

I believe it would be a good idea to at least get him in a class and start training him so he learns the ins and outs of driving and is not thrown into a situation suddenly. He does not sound "ready" to me right now.

HOWEVER... I see no reason why you would have a rule to wait until 3 semesters of college are completed. Most teens need the use of a car for school functions, family carpooling, going to college, etc.

I hear yo, this is why I love reading the answers on here.

The arbitrary, future rules some parents have! I shake my head and think, honey you have no idea.

They have no idea what may come so when reality sets in and all of a sudden that cell phone, car, comes in handy, they have to back peddle!
Happens to all of us at some point, but we have to learn on our own.

I would approach this with some questions.
Is he mature enough to handle the responsibility of driving a car? Is he good at following rules? Does he do as he is instructed?

The sleep deprived portion of this. Has he seen a doctor? What has the doctor said?

Is it that he just does not need much sleep? Our daughter stayed up really late every night even school nights, but she could get up in the morning on time, get through a long day of school, after school Rowing team, get all of her homework completed and do it all over again. She is still a person that is ok with with 6 hours of sleep. Does not make her sleep deprived.

I got a learners permit and then a hardship license at 15, because my mother needed my help getting my sister to her school. There was no school bus at the time.

Once I was 16 she took me to find a job so I could start saving up for a car. IF she could have afforded to give me one, I am sure it would have come with a lot of rules and of course the responsibility for the transportation needs of my sister while our mom was at work.

I would have gladly done this to help her out. I would not have seen it as a chore, I would have been thrilled to be so trusted.

Why is your husband so opposed? Listen to his reasons. Is it because HE was not allowed to drive at that age?
Or because he feels your SON is not mature enough?
Is it the expenses he is concerned about? The MOMENT a teen is given a drivers license, your insurance will go up. A lot! So check into all of the costs to make sure this is how you want to handle this need.

IF you all decide to go this route. You will need to make a list of Expectations and be VERY clear that it is a privilege to drive. If the rules are not followed, you will revoke this privilege and the car can be taken away and sold because" the car is not your sons car, it is the family car!"

The options can be to give him a goal to reach to pay for the car. IF he reaches that goal, the car can be his (and as a bonus, you could even give him back the money as a reward!) when he graduates from High School.

My kids started driving at 16. California law requires drivers under 18 have 3 hours of classroom time plus 6 hours with a professional driving instructor, plus 6 months driving with mom and dad so I felt they were as prepared as they could be.
We already had a third car so that wasn't an issue. We didn't "give" it to them, it was, and is, still our car but it was there for them to use to get back and forth to school, activities and work.
Everyone I know started driving at 16, whether they had their own car or used their parents car. Most of my kids' friends were driving at 16 as well so to me it's just normal.
Are your husband and his mother from another culture or something?
Personally I LOVED it when they started driving. The high school is a forty minute round trip pain in the rear commute so I was thrilled not to have to do that anymore! Also they were able to take on more babysitting jobs because they no longer had to rely on me being available to take them and pick them up. It's been a win win for us.

I honestly don't know any families that didn't put their 16 year old driver to work helping cart siblings here and there and running errands for mom or dad.

It is odd to me when parents talk about stuff like this.

Yes, the car will be a beater car but not so bad that it needs constant repair. It won't have a built in DVD player like hubby's and my cars have, it may not even have a working radio. But it will be a car than is good solid transportation that will protect them as much as possible in the event of an accident.

No, we won't give unlimited gasoline in the car, no we won't let them run the streets after hours, and no, they won't be driving on the highway until they have a year or two of street driving. But I do plan on the kids having a car to access with insurance and gasoline in it. I pray to heaven that gasoline isn't $10 per gallon at that time too.

I do NOT plan on making the kids get jobs the minute they turn 16. I do not plan on making them get a job until they're out of college with a degree. Their job is to go to school and get good enough grades they can get scholarships and to focus on that.

I think driving is a privilege and I share Nervy Girl's concern about exhausted drivers behind the wheel. I have a neighbor (adult) who sleeps 3-4 hours a night and she's a menace on the road - unfocused, distracted, in a hurry because she "has too much work" to even sleep.

I drove at 16 and I understand you want the help from your teen. I think if you put a teen in a good driver program and also do plenty of hours on the road with you supervising (including working up to driving with noisy younger kids in the car), to build up trust on both sides, you can have a responsible driver in a teen. There are all kinds of electronic devices now that monitor a teen's location, speed, etc. but if you can get away with a shared sense of mutual responsibility, that's preferable. If your teen earns free time with the car by helping out and by getting enough sleep, let him. In our state, they can only take family members and not friends in the early stages of a junior license, so he won't be off galavanting with friends.

Also, sending a driving teen to the grocery store builds up experience and a respect for what things cost as well as the thought that goes into finding the right items and the time it takes to feed a family - all good knowledge to have. You could open a special junior bank account too (with a debit card i the child's name), to give your teen experience with that. With electronic transfer, you can put in enough money for gas and insurance (let him pay the bills) and even the errands you need him to run, yet you monitor every penny on line.

I don't think depriving a child of a permit helps anything. How can they earn trust if you don't give an opportunity? Believe me, once they experience the joy of driving, they will respond very quickly to your taking the keys away if they screw up.

Our oldest is 16. He took driver's ed when he turned 15, so he had a year to practice driving before he took his driving test when he turned 16. We shared my car for 7 months. He only drove it to get to friends' houses this summer, really, and to run errands for me from time to time. Then last month we bought him a cheap truck so that he could drive back and forth to school. That has been a HUGE help to me. I love not having to pick him up from school. I'm a teacher at a different school, and now I can stay a bit later and tutor my students. Our son is completely willing to run errands, and he he also picks up his younger brother from school. It's been a huge help having him drive.

He knew that he would get a car eventually, so for the past 3 or 4 years he has been putting money in a savings account so that he would be able to pay for gas and insurance. We don't make him pay for all of it. Right now we're paying for his gas since he's mostly driving to/from school and picking up his brother. He buys a tank of gas once in awhile (he's paid for one tank so far). Once he starts driving other places he'll pitch in more. We have him pay for half of his portion of the insurance. Insurance is so expensive for teens that we simply didn't want to make him pay the full amount. He has a part time job, but it would take almost everything he makes and would deplete his savings if we made him pay all of the insurance and gas.

This works well for us; you need to do what works well for your family.

I agree with your husband. Mom and Dad should be the only drivers. If he wants to buy a car, he can earn the money and do so on his own. Parents ought not buy their children cars (or foot the bill for college) if they expect that those children are going to appreciate the cost of those things.

I'd also not allow him to get his license until he's matured past the "doesn't like to sleep" stage.

All 4 of my kids got learner's permits for their 16th birthday. My husband and I taught them to drive so it took longer for them to get their license than it would have if they had gone to driving school (more driving hours under their belts so more situations encountered).

Each received a good safe used car and we paid for insurance. They paid for gas. It worked out well for us and all 4 are really good drivers.Currently my state has graduated driving which means there are rules for when a under 18 new driver can be on the road and how many people they can drive. It wasn't in force when my oldest 2 were driving but I set my own rules on friends in the car. Friends and call phones are the two biggest distractions.

So I think it could work well. Just set your rules and know that your insurance will be crazy high for a while.

In CA, kids start driving at 16. Whether that's a good idea or not is another matter. I didn't make the law. So my kids were able to start driving at 16.

There's nothing wrong with making a kid help out with errands, however, your husband doesn't want him driving yet. And your husband has a right to this opinion.

End of story. Have your son help out with chores that don't involve a car. It won't hurt your son to have to wait for his license, when his brain has had a little more time to mature.

I didn't get licensed till I was 21. Certain of my friends still aren't licensed. It isn't a pressing need in NYC and owning a car/ parking it (alternate side of the street parking regs), and insuring it are a real hassle when public transport is so readily available.

See if public transit/ carpooling are a viable option for your family before you swing your decision on this one. Just food for thought.

Best,
F. B.

We got licensed, but could only use mom n dads car when they did not need it. I got a car for college but that was only because there was no way there unless I drove. They paid for the first 6 months of insurance, the rest was on me. Including the gas. (of course that was back when it was a $1.12 a gallon.)

What would you do if your older child was not around? You would need to do that stuff. Also, do you realize how much your insurance is going to go up? How much gas will be? That is crazy.. then the accidents? No, I would not get him a car to be your helper. You would be cheaper putting him in a taxi to get to practice etc, then buying him his own car.

car insurance rates for teen boys is far too expensive..job or no job. a bike would be alot less expensive but would still give the teen the ability to help run errands , without having to worry too much about one of his buddies distracting him while he is driving and wrecking the car you just bought. K. h.