Still Witholding Bm's!

Here's what I would do/ have done. 1st go back to Miralax until you have a consistent routine down. I understand about the medicine thing, but its not forever. Then, you choose the time of day she is usually pooping and have her go sit on the potty until she poops. My son had this exact issue, though we never got to the medicine phase, and he now sits on the potty after lunch until there is poop. I am adament about this. We were at a bday party the other day and I sent him to poop : )

Hi D.,

Take a deep breath and relax. This is a very normal stage that a lot of children go through. I have no real advice for you except don't dwell on it and make it a big thing. The more she sees you stressing over it, the longer it might take.

L.

Here's what I recommend based on my experience with my son. I know how hard it is, but this is the bottom line that kept me sane:

I realized after much stressing out that I will never win the battle of holding in poop. He is totally in control of this, and using laxatives would have just confused the issue. I thought about how I feel when I've had to take them and it's not the natural "feel like you have to go" feeling, and it's kinda scary.

Therefore, I suggest that you get her back in the underwear for peeing on the pot. Tell her that if she feels like she needs to poop, she can have a pull-up or diaper to poop in. Again, this gives her the control she wants and keeps her aware of the feeling like she has to poop. When she asks for the pull-up, just ask if she'd rather go on the potty because it's easier for her to get cleaned up and she can hear it go splish-splash. If she says no, just put on the pull up or diaper and let her do her thing. Then, after a few weeks or whatever it takes I would bet that there will just be one day when she asks for the pull up and when you ask about the potty she will say okay and just start using that, or instead of asking you for the pull-up or diaper, she'll say that she wants to try to go on the potty instead.

I know one size does not fit all for kids, but I firmly believe that the issue is control, and she wants to be in control. Giving her the pull-up option gives her the control and lets her develop at her own pace.

This worked for my son, and literally after about 3 weeks of pooping in the pull-up, one day he said he'd rather poop on the potty, and from that day on he never asked for the pull-up again.

Hi D.! My SIL went through this with her oldest. Sure some of this is about control...it's one of the only things she can control at her age and she's learning it well. Putting her back in diapers was a smart move. Now here's another suggestion for you, for her hiney soreness go to your nearest Giant Eagle pharmacy and ask if they have any PINXAV (pronounced pink-salve) diaper rash ointment. If they don't have it they CAN order it for you. (FYI the Giant Eagle in North Versailles ordered it for me last summer) It is $4.99 for a 4oz tube and it's the best stuff EVER for any kind of hiney issue. I found out about it when my kids were little and I still use it on every little one I watch that has diaper issues. Once you get a handle on the rash thing quit focusing on the diapers. Sure, you have to ask once in a while, but take the tone that "its NO BIG DEAL"....change your focus off her bodily fuctions and put it back on her. Once you are both relaxed and not focused on the whole potty-trainning issue then be as casual as possible..."oh, we are going to the mall, do you want to go potty before we leave?" or "it's bed time, do you want to go potty before you go to bed?" or "mommy is going potty before we go to the park, do you want to too?" Once she starts "going" again you could try what we did, for every day without an accident we put a small sticker on the family calandar we keep in the kitchen, after 30 days of no accidents they each got a special toy (we had all girls and they got star castles.). Actually not one of my three girls potty-trained before they were three, it was okay though not one of them ever had an accident when we were out or in their beds! Waiting is okay. Good luck and Best wishes.

What about if you try to "undo" it the way you think you might have encouraged it to happen ? When you go to change her diaper, say something stupid like, "Is there a poop in here?" very excitedly, and say, "I'm going on a poop hunt." etc. And then if you find even a little bit, get excited over it.

When we were potty training my 1st daughter, at 2 1/2, she was great except for pooping. She wouldn't do it on the toilet. She'd hold it in, then go in a corner and push it out. It was obvious what she was doing, so one day when I caught her, I said to my spouse, "She's pooping. Quick! Grab her and put her on the toilet" He swooped in, picked her up, and sat her on the toilet, then made a big deal about the fact that she did it on the toilet. I think they even waved good-bye when it swirled out of view. I don't have any idea what was going on in her head, whether there was something scary about pooping in the toilet, vs in the pants, ?? , but after that, she never failed to do it in the toilet.

The other thing you can do is to sit with her at a specific time each day (like after breakfast or something) with her on the potty chair and read books for 1/2 hour. If a poop comes out, YAHOO !!!! If not, it was a good mom/daughter time. It might work best if her little bro is napping, so you don't have to worry about what he's doing while you're having a fun time with her.

I would be inclined not to worry about her training pants getting brown and/or hard to clean. You can chlorox them the way you would cloth diapers before washing them, and when she's got it down, you can buy new ones. Just don't make a big deal about grubby undies. They are washable and replaceable. And if she poops in them, you can tell her it's always better to have the poop out rather than in, and do you think if we read a book or two you could get some more out ?

is there any special kind of candy she likes ? (I can hear all the moms booing over this one !) If so, you can give her a small piece of it every time she gets a poop out. Anything to make it a positive experience. With all the stuff out there about sugar these days, I want to say that my two older girls were brought up on healthy foods, and lots of enforced exercise, cuz I exercised a lot and dieted a lot when I was younger. They are both overweight today. My younger 2, born 10 years later, are as skinny as they come, and eat sugared cereals and ice cream. Go figure. I think they don't crave it because we didn't withhold it. So I'm not into the "avoid sugar" thing anymore. Use it to your advantage. Give her one M&M every time even a little piece of poop comes out (even if it's in her pants, at first). Frankly, the lecithin in the M&M's may help move them through. :-) Either way, it's a pretty reward, and that little piece of candy at a time isn't going to cause diabetis or sugar highs. And if she gets the log out -- why not give her 5 or 10, she worked for them !

It's a little bribery, it's a little behaviorism, it's a little bit fun for her. And if it works, it's a whole lot less frustration for you (and less guilt, cuz right now you are blaming yourself).

Good luck !

I had this problem with my son but probably not to this extent. I motivated him by using toys he liked in a big basket where he couldn't reach them. Only when he pooped did he get to choose one. I also gave a tsp of prune juice in his o.j. each morning and increased his fluids throughout the day to make it easier for him to go.

I do have a friend whose child's issue was more severe and started "leaking" stool because he didn't want to go. He actually caused himself to have more of a medical issue and stretched out his bowel so that he did not have the sensation to go at all. I don't want to scare you because I haven't heard of this with any other child, but it is just so important to keep your doctor aware of what is going on.

I hope that the issue resolves itself as it usually does with these things. Hang in there.

I think the advice you've gotten is generally good. I would just emphasize a couple of points:
1. Back off the pressure for a while. Even though you think she's physically and mentally ready, if it's this hard, then she's NOT ready. My kids weren't done until 3 and 1/2 (both girls). With the oldest, I tried everything-videos, books, sticker charts, etc, etc. and nothing worked until she woke up one day and said she was done with diapers--and she was!
2. Don't worry about the Miralax. One of my daughters has a tendency toward constipation (at 8 1/2) b/c of a surgical history. She's been on Miralax daily for a year and a half and several doctors have assured me that there's no problem with that (unlike ex-lax or something).
3. The importance of the first two points is to take the pressure off her. If she's leaking stool, even a little, then there's enough backed up in there that it can stretch out her colon and lead to serious long-term problems. Give yourself and your daughter a break, do the Miralax and relax for a few months, then try again. Good luck!

Hi D.,
I always try to respond to these sort of requests because my family has been through the nightmare of a stretched colon, chronic constipation and encopresis (loss of bowel control with feces leaking around a blockage in the colon). This is truly an emotionally charged topic for me so I apologize in advance if I sound too preachy.

My advice is just to table the toilet training. The stakes are just too high. If she wants to be in diapers leave her in diapers. I remember how much work it was to have 2 in diapers, and the lure of getting her out of them is very strong, but the medical problems that can result are far more yucky, long lasting, and a lot more work. They could drive your stark raving mad - take it from me! The fecal material that eventually can leak around a blocked colon is like nothing you have ever seen and I pray you never see it.

Do not let this become a power struggle! Your little girl is still really very young. Even if she is physically ready she may not be ready for this emotionally. She has the ultimate control over her body and nothing you do will change that. I really wish I had heard and understood that message when my son and I were at the point you are now. Eventually she will want out of the diapers - then you can work together to accomplish it. you are the adult and you need to refuse to allow this to become a power struggle. If you fight with her over this, she will win the battle and you will both lose the war.

I think if I were in your shoes I would be focused on keeping pooping from being a bad experience for her. If her hiney hurts use wipes or put her in the tub or whatever you need to do! I know it is a lot of work and can drive you crazy, but it will be so very worth it if she relaxes and just moves her bowels normally. I would use the Miralax exactly as your doctor recommended until things are under control. . My son was on Miralax for over 2 years - a little now might save you a lot later.

If your daughter is still not pooping in the potty at 3 or even 4, but she is physically and emotionally healthy you are still a good mother. We hear so many mixed messages on this point. I remember having people tell me my son was crazy when he was sick and that it was all my fault. My son is ten now and free of medical problems. He is pretty well adjusted, has lots of friends, and does very well in school. He uses the toilet like the rest of us. In the end maybe that is all that really matters.

Peace and Good-luck,
K. L.

All kids have their moments when they try to control the situation and drive us crazy. Smile it will get better.

Put her back in big girl pants. Maybe let her pick out some new ones and have a goodbye party for the diapers. Accept that there will be accidents.

Get a timer. This is now the "Time for potty" timer. At first set it for 30 minutes. When it goes off it's potty time, not because you are telling her, but because the timer says so. Gradually increase the time between it ringing. Maybe give her a star at the end of the day when she has no accidents. Perhaps when she gets 5 stars she could have an extra cookie as a treat, or gets to pick a special dinner choice, or gets an extra story read to her.

Once you remove yourself as the one telling her to use the potty, she is less likely to battle as much. But remember accidents will happen and if you make too much of a fuss then she will get very worried and could have more issues about using the potty.

I think that you should table this issue for a little while. Do not even mention anything about potty and continue using the diapers. Not to make you feel bad but it really was probably the fear of pooping on Dora that freaked her out. This will all come together when she is ready so please don't push it. I am confident that your daughter senses your stress level on this. Kids have great intuition and also understand more than you give them credit for when you are discussing them with other adults.

My oldest son was fine peeing in the potty but would not poop in it. He would let me know when he needed to poop and I would switch him to a pull-up. Until one day out of the blue (at about 3 1/2) he went on the potty. From that point on he was fine and NEVER had any kind of accident.

Good luck.

I went through this with my son about that age and what happened was because of the battles, he continuously withheld and stretched out his bowels. So those little leaks and stuff that came out, he had absolutely no control over. He was on a regiment of miralax for a year so that we could work on shrinking his bowels down to normal size. He got so used to it being a battle, to the pain and discomfort, that he didn't want to go at all. We also went back to diapers. It was an emotional thing for him and he really was embarrassed by it. He was fully potty trained by 4yo (3yo for pee), but it didn't cause any major problems. He would be able to be in underwear most of the time and told me when he needed a diaper. We told him it wasn't his fault and went from there giving him what he needed, no bribes or anything until we were sure he was able to go easily without any pain. Once he got used to going "normal" it was easy to get him to use the potty.
Good luck.

If she's ready to be potty trained, then I would put her back in big girl pants. Maybe you can get a big pack of plain ones without a character on them and try again. If she has an accident let her know it's OK, and to try again. My son had alot of accidents, but learned closer to the age of three to go to the potty on his own - instead of me reminding him to go. Sometimes I also think it's a little scary for them. Good Luck.

Hi D.,
I understand exactly where you are coming from. I was in the same position only my daughter was a little older. At 3 she was going pee pee on the potty with no problems, but when I started pushing her about pooping, she got so stressed out she started getting constipated, so I backed off. I let her poop in her pull up and never got upset, however we were still very strict about pee pee. I am happy to say I think that worked. It has been two months now and she is now pooping on the potty on a regular basis (more times then she is pooping in her pull up). I think she was a little scared of pooping in the potty and letting her do it at her own pace really took the pressure off. Hope this helps! You are NOT alone.

Hi D.-
Forgive me if I'm missing something here but... Is your daughter able to tell you when she has to poop? My daughter would tell me when she had to poop and I would put a diaper on her and when she was done the panties went back on. She would even stay dry at night but just wasn't ready to poop on the potty. After about 3-4 months SHE decided she was ready. A little annoying to still have to buy diapers, yes, but certainly better than poopy panties or constipation. Hope things work out for you.

I'm having a very similar issue so will be interested to hear what other people have to say. My son, almost 3, is now pretty much potty trained in the pee department. He wears underwear all day long and has for about 3 weeks now. However, he refuses to poop on the potty. So we encourage him to put on a pull up to poop because i don't want to get back to the constipation issues he had when he was little. But, he still holds it becuase he doesn't really want to put on a pull up. The first week he went 6 days without pooping and we finally resorted to Mirilax - he finally pooped the next day and the one after that. He does get to a point where he just can't hold it anymore and he asks for a pull-up. We don't make him feel ashamed at all about the pull-up, though we do continue to ask if he would like to try the potty. I even bought him a cool toy and tried bribing him but so far it hasn't worked.

We've continued to give him a teaspoon of mirilax every 4 days (when he starts complaining that he has a tummy ache) and then he'll poop the next day. I don't like resorting to that as a permanent solution - but i expect that one day he will decide it's ok to poop on the potty when he's ready and it will resolve itself. His 3 year appt at the ped is at the end of March and we will discuss it further then.

I think this is a relatively common problem. I've never actually experienced it. However if I did, I'd try a few things: 1) Put her back in her diapers and forget about the potty, 2) rather than medicine I'd give her an ounce of prune juice a day. I knew a mom who put it in her son's milk and told him it was chocolate milk. He loved it! I do know prune juice works wonders w/ my 3 kiddos. 3) slowly wean her off the prune juice by first reducing frequency then amount. 4) let her get back to pooping regularly in her diap for a while 5) reintro the potty w/ no pressure. A nurse once told me there are 2 things our little ones have complete control over; what goes into their mouths and what comes out of their bottoms! You can still influence her training while giviing her a sense of control. Good luck!

I understand being hesitant about over-medicating kids. However, if the Miralax was making it better and stopping the Miralax made it worse, seems like the first thing to try would be to put her back on the Miralax. If you take care of this now, she'll probably outgrow it and be fine, but I do know a friend of my daughter who still has pooping issues and takes Miralax at 8 years old. Miralax is pretty mild, and you're probably right about this being more of a control/potty training issue. If the Miralax helps you and your daughter get over that 'hump', so to speak, then use it or you may regret it later.

As for her hiney, try some of the Kandoo or other moist wipes to keep her hiney from getting irritated.

Best of luck!

First of all relax. Your daughter can tell you are stressed. You have to give up the fight. It is a control issue for her and if you want to ever get her out of diapers you must let her win. 2 1/2 is a very confusing time and the one thing she can control (her toilet function) is in a power struggle with you. You can't control it and she can so you have to give in. I am from the school of thought that a kid will potty train when he or she is ready. I have not even tried to potty train my kids, the first, until after 3 and well the two 1/2 guy doesn't even show any readyness yet.

I guess what I reccomend is to back off and let her "win" for now. And remember most kids are out of diapers by kindergarten!

Personally I would back off the potty training. I waited with both of my girls to potty train until they were a little older. It will make it A LOT easier for you and less frustrating for them. Also by that point they are more than capable just a little stubborn.

My pediatrician told me to go cold turkey with the diapers. Switching back and forth will only confuse them more. The only time I use diapers is overnight and I am keeping an eye on them to see if they are dry in the morning. Once she is dry long enough we will cut them out all together.

Have you researched encopresis?

hi, i have also dealt with a child witholding since age 2. he is know 10 an still struggles with it. after her was 6 they finally told me he had Encopresis.with my son after with holding for so long he did some damage to his muscles so he struggles with not having much of his urge to go. plz check into Encopresis. learn everything there is on it. my son has been on mirlax since 2 yrs old an longer longer helps him go.alot has to do with she nows she is in control an we can't stop her. i honestly feel bad for her an you it is a horrible thing to deal with. my son wore pull ups into 4th grade. if you ever want to chat here is my email. ____@____.com

H.