My Three and a Half Year Old Son Refuses to Potty Train

I was just at the pediatrician for my DS today and the topic of potty training came up. He said you can try anything (underwear, rewards...) but unless the CHILD is ready, it will not work. Be patient, give it some time, and let him decide when he's ready. That's probably easier said than done, but it was a professional recommendation.

Hi M.
I completey agree with Neza. That is how I trained both of my children. But you MUST be completey dedicaded to potty traing until he gets it so to not go anywhere or do anything until he gets the hang of it. Good Luck and hang it in there he will eventually do it.T.

Hi M.,

This must be terribly frustrating. I would make HIM clean up the mess: rinse out his own clothing, wipe down the walls, whatever. I would also stop talking about potty training: no rewards, no punishments, no playgroup ultimatums. It's become a battle of wills, and as others have pointed out, he's winning.

He won't do this until it's important to him. That may be when he gets sick of cleaning up after himself, or when he has an embarassing accident in public.

M.- I feel your pain! We have been in the exact same boat with our 39 months old son. We first tried training when he was 34 months and then the doctor told us to stop because it was a full out war to get him to the potty. 3 weeks after his third birthday we started again and have really been aggressive this past week. Let's just say I am happy it is Sunday night and almost time to return to work on monday. I don't know how stay at home moms do it.

I guess I don't have any advise and I am sorry for that but I just wanted to offer my support and I hope you have luck in the near future. Keep you chin up and as everyone has told me he won't go to school wearing diapers.

A.

My son is almost 3 1/2 and we're having a lot of trouble too. Not quite as bad as your little guy though. One thing that has just started to click with him is he's finally getting into his "presents". You may have already tried this, so if it's a repeat I appologize. I bought a bunch of matchbox cars and some little farm animals in a zippered bag. Every time he goes pooh on the potty he gets a sticker on his chart, two fruit snacks, and a new toy. I also praise him to no end. When he goes in his pants I make no secret of my disapproval and try to make it unpleasant. I think he's finally catching on that it might be worth it. Good luck.

M.,

When my son was 3 1/2 he was fully pee trained, and had been going poop on the toilet too. Then he started pooping in his pants again. It was a set back I thought. But he knew he was doing it because he had already been using the toilet for pooping. I made him clean up his own mess. (With some help from you obviously.) The initial getting the poop out of the pants and rinsing them though is what he had to do. He thought that was so GROSS!!! It literally took 3 times that he had to clean up after himself and that was all it took. No more pooping accidents. I said, "if you would go on the toilet you wouldn't have to do this." That was it. Make him help clean up. Rinsing dirty underwear and helping change sheets is not high on the fun list for a child that age. Hope this helps, you are not alone!
V.

I'm in the midst of the "battle" as well! I've read everything, tried everything and still have not had complete success. My son turned 3 in August and it was right around that age that he saw a friend potty on the toilet. I talked to him about it and suddenly something must have clicked and he wanted to try. Until them nothing would get him to go. At first he seemed to like his new found talent and all the praise, but after a short while it was not so fun for him. And he would not even think of trying to poop on there. He held it until he was sick and then it was horrid. After that he started peeing and pooping in his underpants whenever he wanted. I was losing it with all the mess. The best thing I read was a book that discussed the different steps of being ready to potty train. I truely believe while my son is ready physically, he just is not emotionally. So I backed off on the poopy training completely and focused on the potty part. He started doing great with that again. What he started doing was holding his poop until he had a pull-up on for nap, nighttime, or when we left him somewhere where he would not have help with training (like the YMCA). One recommendation was to train him to ask for a diaper when he needed to go poop. So I ended up working on that and he is now doing awesome with it. He has gone poop on the potty chair a few times, but still just basically freaks out about it. The next step after having him ask for a diaper, was to have him poop in the bathroom. 2 months ago he completely bucked against that, but I started it again this week and he will now cooperate with some persuasion. Once that is mastered, I will have him sit on the potty with his diaper on to go poop. And then finally work on removing the diaper. I read this in a book and I do know a mom who did this with her child. He actually was putting on/taking off the pull-up himself. I think she said it took something like a year before he was ready to go without. My son is still not dressing himself, so I have him go get the diaper as his way of helping. I have had him help clean up his messes in his pants, but his motor skills make it pretty messy, and he does not seem to care. And I get completely grossed out.

I am prepared to keep plugging away with this and I know some kids are just not ready until much older. I'm not happy about it and still get frustrated, but what can I do? He's not old enough where it's an obvious abnormality. I'm so envious of friend's who have kids the same age that are perfectly trained. I'm also hoping siome peer pressure from other kids will help him some. When he was pooping in his pull-up at the Y, he was getting teased once in a while. Mean, but often effective!

I think there needs to be a support group for potty training. I NEVER knew how tough it can be for some kids. Feel free to contact me if you want to chat about this.

ok.
what ive learned from being a child care provider to a child who, just like your son, had NO interest whatsoever in being potty trained. i think he was ...... just over 4 when he finally 'got it'

first of all, NO PRESSURE. dont push, dont plead, dont offer rewards, dont offer punishments. NEVER EVER PUNISH for a potty accident.
going potty is a very personal thing. very. only he can decide to go or hold it, theres nothing you can do to make him go... nothing at all. the more you pressure him, the more resistence hes going to show. if its something fun, relaxed, that HE can choose to do on his own in his own time, then he should do great all on his own.

i tried everything with this boy, and mom did too. mom flat out asking him "do you like sitting in your poop?" only received a "yes"
so, have the potty accessible. leave books or some kind of stationary toy there to distract and keep him company. dont sit there and hover over him. (can YOU poop when watched? i know i cant. i have enough trouble in a public restroom when someone else is in another stall!)
periodically check on him and ask him how its going.

one thing physically, there are only certain windows when someone can poop. when you feel like you have to push the poop, thats the time. if that time passes, or isnt yet, there is NO way he will be able to poop.

what you can try is in the morning, on top of cereal or whatever, sprinkle some milled flax, and make sure that he gets plenty of water. the flax has fiber, which absorbs water, making poop softer and easier to pass. i tried this with a baby i had, and i swear, it was within a half hour he had to poop. i didnt know about it until after the 4 year old was trained, so i cant say how it works on him... but try it. and watch, in about a half an hour have him sit on the potty and read or something. if he gets interested in movies easily, and will sit for them, thats a great idea too.

good luck mom. potty training is the hardest thing - and again, only he can choose to be trained. most of all, have patience, relax, dont push or pressure. no reward no punishment. he is also old enough to help clean himself (and mess) up. so try that too.

wow, that really could have been my home you wrote about! exactly the same problems... i finally gave no rewards or consequences for the whole thing, he changed his own underwear, and i would just say calmly "next time try to go to the bathroom, you're a big boy, i know you can do it" then i would set the timer for every 45 mins and make him decide if he had to go- he was a big boy and in control of his body. i stopped worrying about it. he soon stopped caring- and probly with some of the pressure/tension being gone- and just started going. and he would get to stay up at nap time, or get up early, if he went poop on the potty (of course he would go to bed earlier then, but it took a while for him to figure that out and it seemed to work). i really don't know what made the difference, it was so beyond frustrating during the process... and it wasn't till he was just past 4 that we were finally done. one suggestion i was given for night time "let loose" issues, put a diaper or pull-up on over his underwear. then the ickiness is still there but not all over the bed.

Hi, Please do NOT make your child clean up after himself if he has an accident. And don't just put this on hold for a while- he needs to be trained a.s.a.p. And treat each day as a fresh start, so your child won't feel burdened with all the failed attempts.

Here's what WORKED for me with my 2 1/2 yr. old boy:
I devoted 48 hours to not leaving the house; I made sure the house was warm enough, and did not let him wear ANYTHING on his bottom for 2 days. (totally bare butt). We had 2 accidents, then he went on the potty, and never has had an accident yet for the past 6 months.

I hope you will try this.

My son was this age and we were still having problems with him as well. It was also at this time that I started watching my friends children on a part time basis. Having them around sure saved me alot of hassle with him! Because he wanted to play with them and they used the potty, he began to use it too. No pressure from me, just one day he decided that he'd rather play with them and go to the potty than to go in his pants and have them avoid him because he stank. Perhaps a couple of play dates with other kids, who are potty trained, to help give him the gentle shove in the right direction. Going to the bathroom is often the only thing a child truly has control over and when you try to 'train' some of them, they resist with the only thing they have to resist with....making it so that the harder you try, the more they resist. If he's around other kids who are potty trained, he might be more inclined to 'train' himself because the greater reward is getting to play with others and ultimately, that's his choice too. If he stinks they won't play with him and if he uses the potty, they will. If you let it be his choice, the problem will resolve itself much more quickly and easily, you just need to provide him with the opportunity to have to make that choice.

To potty train my son I used cherrios (when he had to pee) At first my son was afraid of the toilet, but when I made it fun to pee... he took right off. For pooping I told him that when he pooped in the toilet his pooped dropped down like a bomb and made a splash, I just had to make one suggestion to him than his imagination went wild with his poop dropping in the toilet. He forgot about the toilet being scary and had fun doing it.....he was 3 when he became potty trained....the worst thing to do is punishment!!! Potty training is confusing to them you put them in a diaper for a couple of years than tell them that's not where their supposed to go anymore.....Just praise him when he does, make it a big deal... surprises, snacks, soon he'll be doing it just bacause it feels good to him....

Its become a power struggle, and you need to put the odds in your favor. He's winning this battle, and there is no good reason for a 3.5yr old to be in diapers, or not trained. he's ready, he's just turned this into preschooler drama.

Make him clean up his own messes. If there is no consequence to him messing his pants, then why not just sit back and let mom do it. Make him take off his went/dirty pants, rinse them out, and flush, and make him clean himself up, make him get himself fresh clothing, make him wipe up any mess (with your help of course) and soon he'll realize that mom isnt' backing down, and its MUCH easier to just use the toilet.

He knows what he is doing, you just have to be aloof about it, make him clean up his messes, and be firm about it.

I may have an answer to that. I have 2 boys , one 23 months old and the other 3 and 1/2 years. You may not want to do it , but it works,Promise!! I potty trained my 1st son at 21/2 years old and my 23 month old is now potty trained and I am so proud. Leave them without a diaper, clothes, pull up on for 2 weeks. except when u go somewhere. The comfort of having the diaper on, allows them to keep going in the diaper. I am sure doing this with a 31/2 year old would be a little different I know cuz I have one.But It worked for me..... Naked boy for 2 weeks then their potty trained , but then you have to teach them to keep their clothes on after that.lol Which is easier then potty training. Good Luck!!!!

M., this is sort of a timely topic for me, as I just spent the long Thanksgiving weekend attempting to potty training my two girls. My 2.5 year old pretty much "gets it" and is doing really well - only a couple of accidents when she doesn't give herself enough time to get to the potty. My older daughter is almost 4 and has Down syndrome. I realize that is a totally different issue than what you are dealing with, but some of the same frustrations are there,I think. I've been asking around, reading everything I can and doing lots of research. One site I found (after my potty training weekend) was a woman who has a daughter with Down syndrome, but she is also the mother of 7 other "typical" children. She says she used a variation of the method laid out in the book "Toilet Training in Less Than a Day" by Azrin and Foxx, with all of her kids and was very successful with it (here a link to the book on Barnes & Noble http://books.barnesandnoble.com/search/results.aspx?WRD=t...)

I like much of what it sounded like this method entails, including first practicing with a doll and having the child remove the doll's underpants and put the doll on the potty and react to either success or not on the potty. She says a key is to devote a full day (or more if needed) to just working with the child. I know this is hard for most of us when we have so many things going on, but if you can do it, I'm convinced it's a good way to get the message across in a short amount of time. She talked about how it's important that the child practice getting pants up and down and the more they practice, the better they get. If you can find a way to get lots of liquids into them, they will get more practice naturally. I found it tough to get my girls to drink enough, but she used feeding them salty popcorn as a way of making them thirsty and also gave them jello when they just wouldn't take any more liquids. So much of it makes sense, but like I say, you've got to have the time to devote to it.

Hope this gives you some other ideas. Good luck! If you are interested in that woman's site it is http://einstein-syndrome.com I then searched on potty training.

I was pretty much right where you are! We started talking about potty training at 18-24 months...And he would occasionally use the potty seat but really didn't think it was a decent trade for diapers. He was so verbal and emotionally confident that there was just no persuading him. A few months after he turned three we had had it...He was going under the dining room table to fill his diaper and then strolling out and telling us to change him. The next time I saw him heading for the table, I took the toy he had in his hand and put it into a box and placed it on top of the fridge. I think it was a plastic dinosaur or something but he was devasted and was basically 100% potty trained with no accidents that same week.

Dear M. . I can definetly feel your pain. My now 3 1/2 year old daughter was potty trained for 9 months and has now regressed, she will not poop in her pants but will often wet them even when she has just gone to the bathroom. She had a UTI a month ago and the MD says these things happen. My response was " yeah thanks alot!" . Our now 9 1/2 yr. old son was the same as your little boy. it took alot of work and off and on he would poop in his pants but the absolute last time was when he pooped his pants at his own birthday party when he was 4. We were at the childrens museum and he had to sit out of his own party while I went out to our car to get the clean clothes that my husband wisely put in the car earlier that day. I think the fact that he was in public with poopy pants was an embarresment and shock and that we were not going to just immediately change them made it work. He never pooped his pants after that again. One thing we have been trying with our 3 yr old is if she can go for several days without an accident she can help decide on a dinner menu or what we have for desert. A friend of ours used to do daycare she suggests putting underpants on first then put on a pull -up that way they feel that yucky feeling and they get tired of that nasty feeling.Also not long ago on the TODAY show there was a woman who did a potty boot camp. If you have an uninterupted day this seeemed awesome. set the potty chair in your kitchen and keep your child in there with you. They say to explain what you are doing with them. Give them lots of salty snacks and water and juice. The salt will make them thirsty and you can then give them drinks and you can monitor what they are doing. I am sure you can probably find the instructions for this on line. Good luck with this I know just how frustrating this can be. J. :)

My oldest was trained for peeing at 3 and pooping at 3 1/2, it was horribly hard to train the latter. He would wait until he went to bed at night with a diaper and then go. My daughter was a lot like your son. She refused to use the potty or tell me when she needed to go. She was around 3 1/2 and one day we came home and she declared "I need to go potty", she went into the bathroom and went and we never dealt with it again. My youngest, who just turned 3, is not all that interested. I am just trying to go about letting him decided when he is ready. Good luck to you, let your son tell you when he is ready and I bet there will be a lot less frustration on all sides.

buy more diapers & STOP TRYING. he'll do it when HE is ready. why get yourselves all worked up? he's at that stage where he needs to feel in control.

Does your husband (when he's available) help with the potty training?

When my oldest son was being trained he resisted my efforts, but when my father (my husband was deployed overseas at the time) spent some time taking him to the bathroom (and showing him how it works for boys) he took much more of an interest and was trained fairly quickly after that.

Same thing with your older son - maybe he can take the younger with him and let him *see* how "big boys" do it rather than just hearing about it.

I wouldn't make a big deal out of it, but maybe your husband/son could make it a "secret boy thing" or something like that that makes it interesting to him.

Good luck - I'm not looking forward to training my youngest, but thankfully we have a year or so with him before it's time.

Here's advice from the Mayo Clinic (Rochester, MN) website:

Potty training success hinges on physical and emotional readiness, not a specific age. Many kids show interest in potty training by age 2, but others may not be ready until age 2 1/2 or even older. And there's no rush. If you start potty training too early, it may only take longer.

So is your child ready? Ask yourself these questions:

- Does your child seem interested in the potty chair or toilet, or in wearing underwear?
- Can your child understand and follow basic directions?
- Can your child ask simple questions?
- Does your child stay dry for periods of two hours or longer during the day?
- Does he or she wake from naps dry?
- Does your child have fairly predictable bowel movements?
- Does your child tell you when he or she needs to potty or poop?
- Is your child uncomfortable in wet or dirty diapers?
- Can your child pull down his or her pants and pull them up again?

If you answered mostly yes, your child may be ready for potty training. If you answered mostly no, you may want to wait awhile — especially if your child is about to face a major change, such as a move or the arrival of a new sibling. A toddler who opposes potty training today may be open to the idea in a few months.

Remember - YOU can't control what goes in your child or what comes out.

Good luck.

I have been in your shoes and hindsight is 20/20. I thought I would tear my hair out, I couldn't understand what I was doing wrong, I tried all sorts of methods. The thing that really drove me crazy is my son was interested in the potty at 21 months but he did not get out of diapers fully until 46 months. I received lots of criticism from other parents, but his preschool teachers were completely understanding. They helped me understand the complexity of the process and that some kids move through the stages effortlessly and other kids struggle. Here is what I learned about my kid and maybe some of it applies to your kid:

My son has sensory processing disorder...this made the physical sensation of needing to pee or poop very difficult for him to interpret.

Combine that with his personality which had 3 key characteristics which made the process more difficult:
1) He is extremely independent and wants to have control over every decision in his day (even at 16 months old, experienced daycare workers were stymied by the level of his stubborness at controlling the events/activities in his day). This meant that any effort on my part to create a potty schedule was met with a battle and battles over potty time only backfire a I am sure you have discovered.
2) He is more intense about his playing than other kids his age. He will stay with the same game for 60+ minutes and hates to transition to something else unless it is approached just right. Again, it was more than the average kid as noted by preschool teachers.
3) He has a perfectionist streak that is so strong that if he suspects he won't be successful at something then he refuses to even try. This is a battle in many areas of his life and showed up very clearly when he had OT for fine motor delays. It also had a strong effect on his potty learning.

We ended up doing a combo of naked time, underwear time (short outings) and diapers (preschool and longer outings). His 3-4 yo preschool allowed him to attend if I stayed in the building to change him if need be. I had to force myself to relax about this because all my anxiety and frustration only caused setbacks. Then a couple months after he turned 3.5, I started potty treats (candy). It was the only thing that created a willingness to sit on the potty. At first he got a potty treat everytime he chose to sit on the potty. Once he started abusing that I started only providing a treat if he produced something. Pooping took the longest, he complained that he just couldn't tell when it was coming, but I helped him learn what signs to look for and when he was pooping I encouraged him to really focus on the sensations. Once he started experiencing consistent success with the potty he started forgetting to ask for a potty treat.

So be encouraged, it will come. No one method works for every kid and it is not your fault or his fault. It may seem like he should be ready and that when he fails he is doing to "on purpose", but he really is letting you know he isn't ready. Try taking a BIG step back again (I had to take numerous 3 months breaks in my son's learning because we were both getting too frustrated). If the clean up is causing stress there is no shame in moving back to diapers for a month or 2. Then try again after a careful analyzing of your son's physical/emotional/social strengths and weaknesses. Work to his strengths.

I love the poster who suggested a potty learning/training support group. And no parents allowed who judge or who say you just need to put your foot down and make them do it. Ugh!!! Like I didn't wish that was possible!

Huge hugs to you and I vividly remember how stressed I felt through this stage. It will get better, have faith =)

Oh, how I feel your pain! :( I guess at this point, I would surrender for a while. He knows it's a game, and he's clearly winning. When you don't care about changing diapers, he will be confused, then happy, then bored, then he'll start going to the bathroom on his own. Maybe. I don't really know. But for your sake, forget that he's old enough to know better and just stop making it an issue. Go with diapers or pull-ups, doesn't matter - they are the same thing, the kids know that too... Then I guess try again in a few months with whatever tactic you thought may have sucked the least with him this time around. This too shall pass. My son is 4 and still needs convincing to poo in the toilet. He doesn't have accidents, he would just rather hold it. Forever. Mirilax helps a little. I'm just figuring my daughter will train herself before she's 2 to make up for the frustration he has caused ;) Good Luck!

I am just entering this phase myself, and I think you have had a lot of good advice. My suggest would be that if you do decide to switch back to diapers, or if you want a medium btw underwear and pull-ups that you consider switching to cloth pull-ups. They are more absorbant than underwear (of course), but they will allow your son to feel the wet instead of pulling it away like disposables. You can find them online and at natural home and baby stores. If you need more advice on this, feel free to ask and I will help you find some. You'll save money in the long-run too. (I also second the advice you got on naked time.)