A Vent, and a Question About Kids Being Honest About Their Presents

i don't care how awful she is or how weird one is about people buying your kids clothes, if my kids DREAMED about being rude when they received a gift i'd flatten them into pancakes with the wild winds of my wrath.
if you don't want to do the cookie house with her, by all means don't. she will probably be relieved too.
but if you need to 'prep' your kids to be courteous to someone who has made a nice gesture to them, the problem is not your brother's GF.
sorry.
khairete
S.

Wow, she must REALLY like your brother to try and make herself a part of your clearly hostile family, a family that dictates what kinds of gifts are GIVEN to them?!
And, yeah, if your brother wanted kids he had 18 years of marriage to do it.
So you don't like her. Fine. But if you love and care about your brother I suggest you reign in the nasty attitude and at least be civil.

Ok, you despise this woman and you clearly blame her for the break-up of your brother's marriage. You might be right, but who really knows what goes on beyond closed doors? As an outsider to your brother's marriage, you REALLY don't know if it was healthy and happy prior to this woman's interference.

I cannot believe how nasty your post is about this woman buying your kids clothes. Perhaps she just doesn't know you well enough to know your extreme preference for other people not buying your kids clothes. Most parents would be grateful. Please give her the benefit of the doubt on this one particular thing that she was trying to do something nice here.

As far as your kid's reaction to the clothes, how do you know that they will make rude comments? Surely YOU have taught them better than to act like ungrateful brats when someone gives them a gift...even if they don't like it. So, yes you prep them for these presents...not to save this woman's feelings at all, but because it is simple courtesy and ettiquette to show thanks for ANY gift. I suspect that your kids will be taking their cues from you. You hate this woman and they know it. Please do not put your children in this position.

I understand that you hate this woman. You probably have cause to dislike her. If you really cannot be around this woman without being nasty, then yes you should limit your time around her...and ultimately your brother.

What's wrong with a 17 year old wanting to make a cookie house?
My son is 17 and he'd want to. Then he would promptly eat it.

To me, there is almost nothing worse than an ungrateful gift recipient.
YES you prep your kids not to say anything rude, not just to her about HER gifts, but EVER. It doesn't sound like your kids are hurting for anything, so why should they be rude or disappointed? There are only two words that are appropriate to come out of their mouths. "Thank you!"

My neighbor called me over because she had a present for me.
It's the weirdest, funkiest, red cape type of thing. She was so happy to give it to me because she thought it would look just beautiful with my blonde hair. She wanted me to put it on because she couldn't wait to see it on me. I did, and I hugged her and thanked her so much for thinking of me. When we got back to the quiet confines of my own house, my son said if I ever wore it in public he was going to run away from home. But to her, he said, "You're right, that color looks really good on her".

You clearly have issues with this woman, but that's not a free ticket to Rudeville for your kids. I'm not sure why you'd have to prep them specifically for her, they should already know to be gracious receivers.

You're already talking about what you won't do next year. My advice is to take things one day at a time. Also, remember that your brother is no "virgin" in all of this. He left his wife for another woman. She's annoying, no one can stand her, he's pussy whipped, her kids are a pain, blah, blah, blah. Apparently, that's what he wanted. Unfortunately, you're along for the ride. Your brother isn't a young man. Some of your anger might be a bit displaced.

Just saying.

Just my opinion.

Best wishes.

I firmly believe that rudeness is an invaluable skill to learn for 2 reasons:

1) To know what it is, and what the rules surrounding rudeness are, so one isn't inadvertently rude &

2) To be able to be rude when the situation calls for it.

My rules surrounding rudeness are simple. They are identical to physical attacks (since the definition of being rude is attacking someone without touching then).

When is it okay to be rude? When you're defending yourself, someone else, or learning how to fight.

(When in doubt... If you wouldn't walk up and punch them -or slap them across the face-, then don't be rude)

I don't see how not liking someone is grounds for rudeness.
I don't see how someone giving you a present is grounds to attack them, either.

_______

By the by... I HATE affairs, adultery, betrayal. Any person who does so is an utter coward. And any person who has an affair with a married person is only marginally better. I'm not saying you don't have reason to despise the woman (although your brother was the one who was married... Its easier to hate someone we don't already love). Nor that she doesn't deserve to be lined up next to your brother and both of them slapped hard across the face. Just that in this particular situation (giving the 'wrong' gift, trying to get the kids together) warrants neither... And being rude about gifts is lower class than I know you are... And not how you usually choose to raise your children.

By all means... Your brother and his girlfriend have earned some rudeness... But please do it intentionally; for the right reasons, in the right venue if you're going to, yah?

If you allow the kids to be rude and vent as to how they hate their gifts, to me, that is less about being honest, but rather telling them it's ok to look a gift horse in the mouth and then complain...

It's not always about the gift, but rather the effort and time that went into it. Say thanks (no need to sugarcoat it) but it's important to have the attitude of gratitude..

Also, if they don't like the gifts, donate the them and or take them back.. and allow the kids to pick things out.. it's not that big of deal..

As for older kids baking cookies.. They aren't that old. Don't forget, her kids went through a divorce too.. Maybe making cookies reminds the kids of better days gone by..

Consider this, your brother made the choice to leave his wife.. no one made him do it.. Why aren't you as pissed off with him... Also, are you completely aware of what he told this woman? maybe he told her that he and his wife were done.. having problems.. could be your brother led this woman on.. IF your brother's marriage was solid, then no one (not even this woman) would have broken it up.. Your brother made a choice here... that is something that needs to be taken into account.. Maybe, it's time you and your brother had a heart to heart.. let him know how much his divorce hurt you... (which it sounds like it did) I am not saying the GF is in the right.. but ultimately, it was and is your brother's choice that brought his marriage to an end..

Wow. I'm sorry but I cannot understand how you can be comfortable with knowing that your children are going to be rude about a gift they've received. Like it or not they should always be kind and say thank you because it is the thought that counts not the actual gift. I realize you have issues with your brother and his relationship with his woman but it is HIS to do as he so pleases. He is an adult as is she. Let them live their lives.

It's not "prepping" your kids for "bad" gifts (I loved clothes as gifts, I find your post strange, but it's not about WHAT they're getting, but how they act), but this is about RAISING your kids to be decent human beings. It's not being honest, that's ludicrous. It's being RUDE vs GRATEFUL. They didn't have to buy anything at all; they're trying.
They don't have to lie and say "this is my favorite shirt, I'll wear it tomorrow", but they can say "Wow, thank you for the shirt!" because it was the act of giving that you are thanking them for, not what it was. I find this attitude amazing, in a terrible way.
A couple times a year, we sporadically play "presents" at our house (I learned it from a magazine article years ago), where we will run around the house and find random "gifts" to give each other. The game is to come up with something funny (a roll of toilet paper? a real gift, anything) and for the recipient to come up with something good about that gift. It's fun, it's funny, but it also taught my kids to be happy and have fun with the act of exchanging, not just a "what's in the box for me" attitude. It's practice for how to respond to gifts even if they're not your favorite...and it can be fun and funny.
My kids are young, but they have the sense (and good heart) enough to NOT even THINK about saying something hurtful or rude to a gift giver about something they've received. You list her shortcomings in hostessing (and yes there are some valid ones----to me, it says she's not been taught how to do it...and it makes me very grateful for my deep south upbringing with my grandma hosting get togethers, bbqs, wedding receptions, dinners after a funeral, parties, Christmases, and treating even a visit from the pastor or neighbor as a happy "event" so that I can copy some of what I saw), but are you aware of your family's shortcomings as guests??? I would be horrified at your attitude and your children's actions: whether I was another guest, the hostess, or even a fly on the wall. Ridiculous!
Finally, if you have a problem with how she hosts an event, then you need to invite them to the next event so that it's done how you think it should be. Be gracious (if you can?) and show them how it's done. Perhaps they didn't have a table big enough for all of you, so they made the mistake of putting your family at one table and her family at another. Those are logistical issues that come up when you don't have a large dining room or big enough table. Because our friends have "kids", we have the kids sit in the eat-in kitchen (we called it the kids table when I was a kid), and the adults eat in the dining room together. That's what works for our size house. Or you could break out long folding buffet tables that you can pick up for $60-75, cover them with a table cloth or 2,and all eat together if there's a place big enough. Or it can be served more cocktail party style where people just nibble and go "wherever". But if she doesn't know how to put it together then you can do it yourself next time. If your brother is important to you, then being kind and including his family should be important also.

okay - I don't know where to start.....I will warn you, you may not like what I have to say....i am NOT trying to be mean. I am giving you my honest feeling and what **I** see going on...

sounds like your kids rule the roost, have no appreciation or manners.
You do NOT like this W.. You have some grudge against her and you can't seem to move past it. You are venting - get it - but your come across as sanctimonious. THIS IS CHRISTMAS!!! LET IT GO!!!! She is BUYING YOUR CHILDREN CLOTHES!!! SO FREAKING WHAT? Does she pick out clothes from Wal-Mart or some other store other than Macy's or Lord & Taylor.

WHAT DID SHE DO TO YOU????? Is your brother happy? If he is? BACK OFF!!! You don't like that she has "alienated" your brother?

1. you state "NO ONE BUYS YOUR KIDS CLOTHES" - she does. She is being generous and you don't like it.

2. YOUR KIDS pick out their own clothes? What do they pick out Michael Kors and Coach?

3. Your daughter is ALLOWED to be rude. She is following your lead. You have PURE DISDAIN for this W., it shows. So you may NOT SAY IT OUT LOUD - you may be doing rude things...there are many times we cannot see what it is we are doing.

"this W." is your brother's life. You continue down this path of vengeance and rudeness that you will drive your brother out of YOUR life...Is that what you want?

It doesn't matter what YOU want for your brother. This is HIS life. NOT YOURS.

Get into counseling for yourself and your family. Start being the PARENT to your children and showing them how to behave...not just "prep"...she NEEDS manners and decorum. PERIOD. She needs self-control.

Instead of FIGHTING this W. - get to know her. They say keep your friends close and your enemies closer....from where I'm sitting? you see her as the enemy....get your beef settled with this one - get it all out on the table and be done with it....

I can be snarky, catty and downright mean if I want to.
But I rein it in.

I want our daughter to be better than me, and so I taught her that we are polite, we have empathy and we do not concentrate on the worst in people.

I admitted to our daughter, I am not perfect and have a bad habit of being snarky etc. and it is something i try to stop. I do not like it about myself.

I always encouraged and expected better behaviors from my child than myself.

I encourage you to stop just blaming this woman. Your brother is 50% of this problem and the results.

NO one can make anyone do anything, unless they have a gun to their head. Your brother got into this situation, made choices and followed through on these behaviors.

Either admit that the two of them are pretty selfish, or treat her the way you want her family to treat your brother.

Pay back is hell.

I suppose the best you can do is to advise the kids to accept gifts graciously.
Just say "Thank you" and if you can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all.
It's a skill that comes in handy throughout life.
If the clothes are really that useless, then Goodwill/Salvation Army will have some nice new donations shortly.

It sounds like your brother is in mid life crisis mode.
He might wake up eventually - or he might not.
His life is his journey and he's not going anywhere he doesn't want to go.
Just quietly talk up with your family how wonderful prenuptial agreements are and how well it worked out for <fill in celebrity's name here>.

You can't control other people.
You can train your kids to be polite when receiving gifts.

If you have to "prep" your kids not to be rude upon opening a gift then you have bigger problems than your brother's annoying new girlfriend.
And if your brother wanted to have kids why didn't he? Didn't you say he was married for 18 years?

This is a fantastic opportunity to teach your children how to deal with difficult people. Model it for them. Even if this gal is a walking red flag, it should not matter a whit in how you choose to comport yourself and how your children will behave.

From your post, you've already decided that this woman is junk, her kids are 'too old' to have the same fun your child is (my fourteen year old nephew just bragged last night about having made a gingerbread house with his mom, my sister, BTW) and her presents are all wrong.

You are a big girl. You can decide to take Christmas for your family alone this year-- or not. If she's that terrible, I'd have done some strategic planning by now so that I did something with them before or after Christmas day and just kept that day for ourselves.

And yes, you do prep the kids to just say "thank you". This woman might be vile, but she actually remembered to give your kids a gift, and I've heard of worse. Why is she obligated to know your family rule that "no one buys the kids clothes"?

Your brother is a big boy. Let him deal with her as best he can. I think you are feeling sorrier for him than he likely really needs. He *chose* to leave his marriage. He *chose* to be with someone who has no plans of having any more children. I think you are so busy hating this woman that you aren't letting him be responsible for his own choices. In the mean time, teach your kids that this isn't all about *them*. Either do the family gig graciously or politely make another plan.

Believe me, I have sat through some holidays with some truly horrible people and all I had to do was be polite. It isn't that hard. ("more wine, please?" "Oh, I need to go ask Aunt Mabel about her recipe... excuse me a minute"....)One and Done had some good "cut'em off at the pass" suggestions for responses to gauche, 'gold-digger' questions. And remember, learning how to deal with difficult people and situations is a great gift to give our children-- they will need these skills lifelong. I understand you want to vent, but it sounds like you might need to be a bit more proactive in your holiday planning, because this woman isn't going away anytime soon.

Well - is your brother happy? Maybe he wasn't happy with his ex wife... It's possible. And as someone said, if he was married for 18 years and they still didn't have kids, unlikely they were going to. 42 isn't too old to become a dad but it's also getting up there. Try to be more objective. No kids is likely not her fault. As for why would a 17 year old want to make a cookie house? Geez. Why not? Maybe she's a bit artistic or likes to bake... I remember baking a lot at that age. And don't buy your kids clothes?? Wow. Why not?? LOTS of people buy kids clothes as gifts. Even though I've seen you be bitchy to people when replying to their posts, I'm trying not to be but some of your complaints seem really petty. I understand you just don't like her but it'll be worse if you make little things that aren't so bad out to be really bad...

This is a tough one. I see all of your points and would be probably feeling exactly the same way as you. Right down to the 'clothes are stupid gifts for kids.' But that is me also-I tend to not be able to pick out the important nuggets of a situaion and group everything together when someone really irritates me. The clothes and the g-bread house situation are a little petty...so try to let that go. She is trying to make the effort to join your family to hers so thats why she wanted in on the customary day of gingerbread. And some people think clothes are a good gift a Cmas because kids are already getting so many toys.

What it all comes down to is that your brother HAS made a change for his life and as much as everyone else misses the OLD life he had this is what he obviously wants for now. And please start realizing that HE is the culprit here every bit as much as this girl. It doesn't seem that you are placing any blame on him.

My 20 year old niece requested we make gingerbread houses.
Also she requested we make cookies and decorate them.
Her 21 year old boyfriend helped, I am 38 and I enjoyed making a gingerbread house.
I don't know, if you have told her not to buy clothes, then she shouldn't, but if she does then teach your kids to be grateful, and say thank you no matter what.

Just a funny story to make you smile:

When my little cousin was 5 or 6 he got a gift at Christmas that he really didn't like and he really didn't have a problem saying so. His parents explained to him that when he gets a present he has to smile and be happy even if he doesn't like it.

So the next year my grandparents got him a new toy but it needed batteries. So they wrapped the toy and then wrapped up a pack of batteries and put it on top of the other present (the toy). He opened the pack of batteries first. He turned to his parents and said, "I'm smiling and I'm happy" with this huge grin on his face and tears welling up in his eyes.

LOL!!!

I know this was more of a vent, but you really come across as a very mean person, and you are hoping that your daughter will be just as mean is crazy. I don't think this woman can EVER do anything right for you to like her. I hope there wasn't an affair going on but if you don't know the actual details, then it's very unfair of you to come to a conclusion.

My 22 1/2 yr old daughter who lives on her own on Michigan Ave, loves to come home and feel like a *kid* again to make gingerbread houses. I'm really surprised at your attitude about this. I will bet anything when your kids are that age, you will be pulling out the gingerbread houses to decorate.

Second, you LOATHE this woman and just because you think you are tricking her that you actually like her, I bet she can feel your hatred for her and her kids. Just because you are not verbalizing it doesn't mean she can't feel it & her kids too!!!

Third. the majority of my friends and my sister in laws LOVE to buy my kids clothes. The reason they like to is for many reasons like; they don't have little ones anymore, they have boys and always wanted to buy little girl clothes, etc. I'm like you and HATE it BUT would NEVER say anything unless they asked. When they do ask I tell them "I buy all their clothes at the beginning of the year, so they don't really need any clothes but would like xyz". Stop bitching about it and when she tells you what to get her kids, tell her what to get yours, it's really that simple.

Thank goodness you aren't going to allow your little ones to be rude. If you are going to teach your kids to be "grateful & generous', this starts with the parents.

Prep your kids not to say anything rude of course. If my kids said something rude about a gift I don't think I would let them open any more! Teach your kids to appreciate anything that is given as a gift. My kids get clothes, shampoo, toothpaste etc for Christmas and they do appreciate it. Most people give and receive clothes for Christmas. Your kids need to get used to this.

Someday your children will be teens, and hopefully they will still enjoy building cookie houses at Christmas. I had my Sunday school class bake cookies last week, and the youth group joined us. Not strange at all.

"tomorrow my kids are going to open their boxes of close and say rude things about them, do i prep them to not say anything rude..." after wading through all the nastiness, i assume that is your actual question. i'd say, you better start "prepping" them now. sounds as though you have a LOT of work to do if you're going to make this a positive experience for your kids.

i'd post a rant about pure hateful grinches but then i'd be perpetuating the cycle. it's christmas. wish people would act like it.

If I have to suck it up this year spending my Christmas faking I love to be with my inlaws. Then so do you!! lol. I usually end up having a fun day. I go in expecting the worse and it turns out better than what I was agonizing about. I go in with a smile and good mood. Then I have major conversations in my head about what I would really like to say and don't. I have a nice day knowing I will be home in about 4 or 5 hours.
Its one day a year I have to do this for my husband and our son. See they feel the same way about me as you do about your brothers girlfriend. It really sucks knowing everyone would rather your sick and would stay home so they could have my husband to themselves. But I am going in and I will have the best time I can. Maybe this year they will even ask about my family. NOT!

You end your long SWH with the statement:

"In any case, I don't carry this around with me. I just need to vent from time to time."

Please reread your own post and your SWH and keep in mind the whole time: "I don't carry this around with me." But you do. You have a mental list you keep adding to: She tells you what to get her kids but doesn't ask about what to get yours. EVERYBODY knows not to get your kids clothes -- um, is she part of that everybody, really? Her kids are too old for cookie houses! And so on.

You have every right to your feelings of resentment and jealousy -- let's call it what it really is, because you sound jealous that she and her kids take up time that your brother once spent with your side of the family. It's normal to be jealous and also to be angry that she was involved in his ending his marriage. But please be aware that to say that "I don't carry this around with me" -- well, considering how long and detailed your list of issues is, you clearly are carrying that list around and adding to it every time you deal with her.

I can't defend her annoying ways, but it's entirely possible that she assumes (having older kids herself) that she knows what younger kids would like but you might be unsure what to get older kids since your are young. It's possible (as someone else posted) that her kids actually were interested in the cookie houses. It's possible that your brother's departure from his social scene of having folks over is because he now is in a household with two kids and he's busy in ways he never imagined and does not have time or energy for his past social pursuits or past family events. It's possible she put the immediate families at separate Thanksgiving tables because she really thought that folks would prefer to visit with those they already knew (and she also has little social radar, which sounds possible here). OK, she and he may be wrong on every count -- but can you see how each thing you list could have another angle to it other than her being purely annoying on purpose?

Again, not saying here that she's some misunderstood angel. Just that you might want to be aware that you are indeed carrying this. Unless you want to end up "venting" to her or your brother soon, and possibly never seeing him again because of it -- you could try either putting the best interpretation on things or at least finding a way to let this resentment go-- because you are holding very tightly onto it. Think of it this way: Is SHE worrying about these issues? Or even thinking about them? No? Then why should YOU waste any mental energy on them?

I'm writing this as someone whose brother is almost finally divorced from wife number four and is living with yet another "she is my perfect woman" girlfriend. I have learned how to see what's nice in each woman, and just let the rest go. But then, we don't live close enough for my brother to expect us to all be together on holidays etc. But you do have to let go or this will eat you.

Sounds like she's trying to become apart of the family and not getting any help from the other side.

When I was 22 and my grandma was still alive we still hunted easter eggs. So why can't a 17 want to make cookie houses? Is there a magic cut off age my family doesn't know about?

Maybe because no one likes her is doesn't include her in things is the reason for his sudden "lack of time/appearances"...

You sound bitter and hostile...not so much venting. Sorry, it's not this womans fault your brother doesn't have kids, it's not her fault he CHOSE to not get therapy with is ex wife. Yes she came in the picture but it he made those decisions...

Oy, I can understand your angst.

That being said, I would probably just deal with it for my brother's sake. And remember - he picked her. !!!!

I'm not saying to be BFFs or anything, or to go out of your way. But to keep the peace during the holidays I would just gloss over the moments with her.

Never let her see you sweat. :) People like her love that. JMO.

PS: I would take extra care to not let my kids feel permitted to be rude to her (sounds like you're aware of that issue). And really it's not just her. Your brother is part of all this too. And I would try very hard to be nice to her kids.

I understand that this is meant to be a vent, but even so this is Christmas and your brother's girlfriend and kids are now a part of his life whether you like them or not. If you haven't talked much with your brother, how do you know how serious he is about her? He may be thinking of marrying her. Don't alienate him over your dislike for his girlfriend and her kids. Whenever someone marries into a family that already has kids, it is awkward at first. If those kids are already teens, than it can be very tricky. My father married his current wife when I was 16. They have been together for many years now. In my own experience, I can say that it was very strange in the beginning, but I love and respect my step-mother very much now. If you really love your brother and he is happy with his new girlfriend, you need to try to put aside whatever it is you dislike about her and really try to get to know her better.

Perhaps her children have never made cookie houses before and really wanted to try it. When I was a teen, I was really into baking and cooking. It could honestly be something that they were interested in trying. They could be artistic and maybe they wanted to make something that represented their artistic side. Let's face it. A three year old and five year old's artistic ability would not even begin to compare to an older child. I bake cookies with my five year old, and it is truly a messy outcome. Great fun, but messy. I can see why the girlfriend requested her kids have their own house.

As for her buying your kids clothes, I think there is nothing wrong with that. I would welcome clothing over some loud toy any day. My son is five and loves to pick out his own clothes, but is also very happy whenever he receives clothing as a gift. Provided she isn't trying to dress your kids in clothing with rude words written all over them, or not age appropriate...

You need to teach your kids to be grateful when they receive a gift. You should model the way you want your kids to behave. They will follow what you do more than what you tell them to do. If they see your dislike for your brother's girlfriend, they are likely to copy how you act around her. Sure you can remind your children to say thank you. I would be careful what you say around your kids about your brother's girlfriend. Young kids can repeat anything they hear at any time.

I think that given her history, you're just mad at her. You may not like her gifts or want them (sounds like you want nothing to do with her) but you smile and say "thank you" and have your children say "thank you" and return what you can later. Getting bent about clothes is giving too much anger to the situation. Holding onto anger is like holding on to a hot coal - you end up burned. Sounds like you really miss your brother and blame her for his current behavior - when he's a grown man who has chosen this life. So either you keep getting mad about it, or you let some of it go.

I would tell my child NOT to be rude. Even if you don't like her, even if you don't like the clothes, do NOT be rude. That reflects back on them and YOU and then everyone else gets to see what rude kids YOU have.

And if you are that angry about clothes, speak to your brother sometime in June and consider not being such a control freak. Because, again, it's not about clothes. It's about how you want things to be and they aren't. So find a way to make peace. At least for one day. Have you ever thought that your hatred of her is part of why you don't see him more?

Well, to begin with, I think the clothes idea is fine--my kids are expecting clothes, they have already outgrown the clothes I bought them earlier this season, so I am glad that family will be getting them more. At least she is getting them something. I have an Aunt that tells me each year where her kids want their gift cards from. Does it mean I get them there? Nope. But thanks for the suggestion. You could always give her some suggestions of what they want. I let a 4 yo have some influence on her clothes, but she needs should not have the final say at this age.

Second- we start each holiday on Christmas Eve and then again on Christmas Day, teaching them what to say and how to act--"Thank you. I love it!" Even if they don't. We tell them that the gift giver spent a lot of time thinking about them and they need to respond with a positive attitude or we will give all of their gifts to an unfortunate child that can. Don't wish that they would be rude--not something you really want.

Your brother was with his wife for a long time and didn't have kids. Sounds like it wasn't something he wanted. He is a grown man who left his wife. That was his choice, not the girlfriend's.

When we would go do cookie houses at a local store, we were amazed at the number of teenagers in there making them. maybe they don't have a grandma that does things with them and they wanted the experience, or maybe the girlfriend wants them to get to know the family.

Getting family together is hard, especially if you are not used to hosting. Maybe she thought you would all be more comfortable with that seating arrangement.

I know she is annoying, but she sounds like she is trying, and maybe you should try a little harder too. Your brother might want to spend more time with you if you actually tried to like his girl friend.

And I know you are venting, but hoping your daughter will be nice because you went over board on presents will back fire--she will end up spoiled.

J., I really think you need to let go of this. There's every possibility that your brother doesn't see you very often because it's pretty obvious that you hate his girlfriend. I'm sure that's not comfortable for either one of them. Now, you may have some very valid reasons for not liking her, but yet the fact remains that your brother cares for this woman. Maybe he will come to his senses, but maybe he won't. Regardless, your opinion and continuing venom toward this woman is not going to make your brother come to his senses any faster, and in fact, he may be digging in his heels due to the family's continued opposition to this woman. If your brother really wanted kids, why didn't he have any during his 18 year relationship? Perhaps that relationship wasn't all he wanted out of life. He certainly owns the failure of his previous relationship; he's an adult. Nobody's fault but his own. You may have liked his ex better than his current girlfriend, but clearly your brother doesn't feel this way. Why not let bygones be bygones and do what you can to get along with this woman? You don't have to be her best friend, but you should be prepared for her to be around for years. You never know, she might be, and fighting her for decades will wear on you. I guess I'm coming at this from a different direction. My dad's family never liked my mom (nobody was good enough for their son/brother), and my parents are still together 40 years later. My dad hasn't spoken to his family in more than 20 years. I would hate for that to happen in your family.

I certainly hope your children know how to be kind and gracious when receiving a gift, even if it's not one that they might have preferred. They should thank her graciously for the gifts. Return them later if you don't like them. Problem solved. I have an aunt who always gives clothes, and they are not usually the style that my kids prefer. But that's okay - we just exchange them at the after-Christmas sales for something they like better. It's the thought that counts.

J. G,
Going through this on some level right now.
No kids involved on their part, but I just cannot "warm up to" this woman.
(And none of us are kids anymore--all over 45 here!)
It stinks because she truly is clueless about how to "fit in" appropriately with a family, never "pitches in," makes inappropriate comments, asks how much we paid for things, etc.
I have given her the benefit of the doubt for a couple years now and have just reached the end of my rope.
When she says something inappropriate or asks something about money I just say something like "why?" Or "I don't share finances with family" etc.
My thinking is MAYBE it will clue her into what IS and IS NOT ok.
Not working so far, btw.
The thing that bothers me is I honestly and truly do not see what he sees in her or brings to the relationship. But I don't have to live with her, I guess.
It is definitely affecting my relationship with my sibling. I'd rather not see him than put up with her.
So---no wisdom here.
Tell your kids to be grateful and appreciative when they open ANY gift from ANYONE. That's the beauty of the gift receipt.
If she doesn't provide them, ask for the receipts due to sizing issues!

I just decided I really didn't like my own response.

I realize that you probably really liked (like) your SIL and are very upset that your brother has left her and their kids. You have every right to be. I don't think that you have to accept this woman into your heart as family until he marries her. I do think that from the sound of things, he will end up marrying her.

You don't have to do stuff with her if you don't want to, and that includes with the kids. Instead, invite your SIL and the kids to be with your kids. The last thing that you want to do is leave out their blood cousins. I especially think this about the cookie houses.

Btw, my older teens and their older teen cousin made gingerbread houses together. They loved them. It DOES take a nice teen to be able to enjoy and put up with making a gingerbread house with younger children, especially those who know that their mother broke up their own cousin's household...

I know that you are venting, however you had to have known, J., when you said "So tomorrow my kids are going to open their boxes of clothes and say rude things about them. Do I prep them to not say anything rude, or do I let them just say what they will?" that people here would pounce on you. If my kids were ever rude to someone about a gift, they'd lose more than just that gift - I'd take their other gifts from them too. Sometimes we have to hide our feelings of disdain for people in front of our kids.

I agree with not having Thanksgiving with them. However, you will have to understand that you will not have your brother with you as much as you would like, now that he is not with his original family. Don't forget that your brother is responsible for being unfaithful to his wife and walking away from his family. Instead of just blaming this woman for it, your brother is the MAJORITY of the blame. Yes, you don't like the woman because of her part in this. But you need to put the blame on your brother.

Dawn